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@bw @autiomaa I’m not 100% sure what you want to get out of scrollbars, but for blind users using screen readers, they are generally irrelevant. It’s one document for them, the screen and scrolling does not really matter.

@cachondo @bw Voiceover on iOS and Mac expose scrollbars to blind people using the screen reader. Talkback on Android uses a tone with increasing pitch (or the reverse) as the user scrolls. That's the detailed version of what Shawn said.

@ppatel @bw it's ridiculously subjecffive, though.

@cachondo @bw I find it reasonably accurate in terms of the percentage readouts on iOS. I use it fairly often in long lists. It's often faster than jumping by screens. It used to be fairly accurate on the Mac as well. I don't have recent experience.

@ppatel @bw in terms of usefulness on the web, we just find at work that the web's so advert heavy, and so many pages autoscroll. that it's not meaningful to many people.

@cachondo @bw This is true. Scrolling on the web is pretty useless since the structure and visual layout makes it pretty difficult for most navigation. This is why web navigation is often accomplished by scructural elements. The only place where I've found visual scrolling useful is long lists or tables.

@ppatel @bw i've always had to repeatedly scroll. In #rockbox, which mostly support’s-physical button hardware to scroll, you can set acceleration in lists and hold down and glide through lists.
I've not heard that happen with a screen reader before.

@cachondo @bw That's certainly true. Most times, page up/down on Windows seems to serve this purpose. Holding those keys down would do this for you. There's no audible indication of the scrolling though. On iOS, the virtical scroll bars allow for 10% jumps, no matter the length of the list or table.

@ppatel @cachondo Thanks for the discussion. Yeah in my limited testing/learning of VoiceOver on the Mac I was always using structural elements for navigating.

Interesting point about percentage readouts. That was one bit of information I was curious about. Like, knowing about where you are in a large document.