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Framing Federation: https://notes.neatnik.net/2025/01/framing-federation
“I do not like or support Meta, and the fact that social.lol has not yet blocked Threads is *not* an indication of support for them in any way; rather, it’s a testament to my belief that there’s more good to be realized through openness than bad to be prevented through blocking.”
@adam I think this line is possibly the best summation:
"We’re not opposed to blocking instances that cause problems, but they have to actually cause problems first."
It's good to see a balanced approach while acknowledging the harm of Meta's actions. I still don't know entirely what I'm going to do in response, but this helps me put a lot of faith in social/omg.lol as a platform
@noof @adam This is short-sighted. Facebook has been complicit in at least two genocides, and the same leadership responsible for that is running Threads. https://erinkissane.com/untangling-threads
If you've ever read or watched accounts of the genocide in Rwanda, Facebook was the equivalent of the radio broadcasts calling people "cockroaches". Cutting off those broadcasts before the genocide got started could have saved many lives. Once the machetes are out, it's too late. You can't wait for that harm to hit.
@skyfaller @noof All of that is objectively horrible, yes, but you’ve missed the point entirely. Blocking Threads in a Fediverse context doesn’t do a single thing to change or improve Meta; it only fractures the network. Are you blocking email from Gmail given Google’s direct support of the Palestinian genocide?
@adam @noof You're missing my point:
I am not defederating to improve Meta. I defederate Threads to cut off hate speech that has killed people in the past and will kill people in the future. My goal is to protect people.
Your argument in this toot seems like whataboutism. If I have to take action in every other field before I take action in one field, no action will ever be taken. I don't need to be vegan to condemn animal abuse. I don't need to deal with Google before Meta.
@skyfaller @noof But you’re not cutting off hate speech. A domain block for Threads only cuts off good people from following other good people. How many reports have you received about Threads on your instance? We’ve received none. Hachyderm said that they received one. Do you also proactively block every other instance because there might be hate speech on it, even if you never see it?
There’s no whataboutism here. You called my take short sighted and I pointed out how yours is equally so.
@adam @noof We proactively block servers with policies that clearly allow hate speech, without waiting for specific examples of hate speech to hit our server, yes.
We're ~two volunteer mods dealing with something the size of Instagram, with a membership of ~150 active users. Why do you think we'll see everything that's happening on Threads? This is not a sufficient sample.
I don't see why you're confident that something you don't see doesn't exist, when you see all of the signs pointing to it.
@skyfaller @noof On our small server, blocking Threads would instantly break over 1,700 individual connections that real people have. They’re good, positive connections with people who for whatever reason won’t use something other than Threads. I can click the block button and feel good about my armchair activism and stance against genocide, but all I’ll have done is break 1,700+ decent connections. Meanwhile, we’ve seen *zero* actual problematic stuff from Threads.
@skyfaller @noof From day one the cries from the Fedipact crowd were “Meta has awful moderation policies; we need to act preemptively”. Since literally over a year ago! And while that’s completely true, in practice I don’t think any Fediverse admins have seen or experienced any real issues with Threads. Everyone I’ve talked to has seen the opposite: Threads has been quiet, and people have been enjoying being able to follow each other across platforms (the very *purpose* of the Fediverse).
@adam @noof We're not going to agree I guess, there's some basic failure to communicate.
"we’ve seen *zero* actual problematic stuff from Threads" doesn't make sense if you agree that deadly content exists on Facebook and Threads, and new policies ensure that you will see more, especially if they increase federation. You've seen the problematic stuff, it just isn't hitting your server yet. I'm not talking about a theoretical threat, you're just privileged to have not been a target yet.
@skyfaller @noof But there’s deadly content *everywhere*. Right now your instance is federated with servers that are actively publishing deadly content. Every Fediverse instance is. Even the “good” instances have things that slip through.
My point is that the goal of a federated social network is for nodes to connect. If we’re going to take every precaution to keep people safe from potential threats, then the only logical action is to stop using federated social media entirely.
@adam @noof Allowlist "island" networks are an alternative that are still federated social media: https://writer.oliphant.social/oliphant/islands
It's ok if that's not what you want from federated social media, but some people do want that. I also have an island server where I don't have to examine networks of loli servers to figure out if each one crosses a line to where I have to block them. That shit is exhausting and neverending.
Also, just because a task can never be finished doesn't mean it's pointless.
@skyfaller @noof That’s totally fair, and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head of the different approaches here. And you’re right: not every instance on the Fediverse needs to be a fully-open thing. I happen to want to run something that can connect with anyone, but it’s perfectly valid to run something differently. It’s in that difference of purpose that we can see how the Threads issue applies differently: islands will want to block, and protocol purists will block as a last resort.
@adam Yeah, it's worth remembering there is a spectrum of approaches and different needs are fulfilled by different parts of the spectrum.
Jawns.club is not an island, but may not have as much reach as a larger or less-moderated server. Hopefully we strike the right balance for our members, or our members will go elsewhere and we'll eventually stop existing.
I waded in because I want Meta's harms we're addressing to be recognized, and blocking to be understood as a reasonable countermeasure.